Neutral Density Filters or Graduated ND

[Tom B.]

Well, I know we have had discussions on filters on past threads, so I apologize up front for this one....I have been looking into getting ND filters and have done some research. That lead to me to re-think exactly what I want / need. So, I ask:

a) Is a straight ND (I like the .6 ND) the way to go, or should I get a G-ND?

b) Should I stay with the screw on or go with the Cokin system? (The Cokin System would cover the various lenses that I have, and without measuring, this might also cover my 100-400 lense...)

c) What is the difference between single coat and multi-coat? Quality? Better Results?

d) Any brand preference?

'e) For basic work, is the .6 the way to go? Would the .3 or .9 be better? Is the .6 more middle of the road?

My reason for the want / need is to be able to realize better results on sunsets, etc...as well as water flow pictures.

Thanks for the input. The more I researched this little filter - the more questions I came up with. So, before I hit my photo store, I thought I should be a little better prepared!

Tom B.

[Bonish Photo]

Hey Tom, both filters are a great addition to the camera bag, and both serve different purposes. Well the same, but are usually used in different circumstances.

If all your lenses have the same filter thread diameter, then go with the glass filter type, B&W or Tiffen are my two favorites and a thin mount is even better if they offer it. This will solve any lens vignetting if you decide to stack filters or are using them on a very wide angle lens.

I have four lenses, my main four that all have a 77mm thread diameter, so I chose to buy screw on filters as I had the Cokin types for awhile, but kept scratching them (I'm pretty rough with my equipment )

A regular ND filter is great if you want to effect to be used on the whole image. Say a waterfall shot during the daytime.


Grizzly Falls in Kings Canyon National Park This was shot at high noon in full sun and I was able to use 0.7sec shutter speed, ISO 100 f/13 because I had a .9 ND filter and a Polarizer on the lens!

Now if you're main objective is to shoot sunsets, a split ND filter or a Graduated one would be best. I have one of these also and use it about the same as the regular .9 ND filter. Sometimes I use them both at the same time. I seem to find that waterfalls, sunsets and anything where you're including the sky or bright sun in the image you almost always need a GND filter to make the image look like we see it in real life.


Tahquamenon Falls, Michigan's Upper Peninsula - I'll give the specifics of this shot away and you'll see exactly what I mean.

Again, shot in late afternoon sunlight on the river section of the falls which meant I had to stack both the .9 ND filter to be able to get the 1/6th Shutter speed needed to get the effect I wanted, but the part of the river that was in sunlight kept getting blown out. So I stacked the GND filter on top of the .9 ND filter and spun it so the filtered side was on the part of the image that had the sunlight in the shot. The shadowed section of the falls is now even to the part of the river that is in full sun.

There were probably 5 other photographers beside me shooting this same scene, and I heard everyone of them grumble to themselves after they shot the image that the upper section was blown out due to the sun or the falls was too dark due to the shadow. I even offered one guy my filters because I noticed his lens had the same size diameter as I had, but he just looked at me funny and said "No thanks!" I guess he wasnt as worried about getting the shot as I was? I've run into so many photographers that are affraid to try others equipment when offered. (I almost always offere any of my equipment if I see a fellow Canon shooter while out shooting)

I chose to go with the .9 ND Filter, as I figured the darker the better, and I can always just use a longer shutter speed, or bring it back up a little on the settings side to compensate, but I found that I was stacking my Polarizer on so may times to try to help cut the light, that I might as well go with the darkest one they offered. I'm not the type that is up at sunrise every morning to get the shots where the light is best. So I just buy some equipment that gives me that same light, no matter what time of day I'm there...LOL

This is one time I'd go with a top name. I have a off-brand ND filter, and when ever I use it, you know I used it I have the best luck with B&W, but man are they exensive! I think the .9 ND thinmount was around $150! But well worth it if you shoot a lot of waterfalls, sunsets of anything that you need that different affect

[Tom B.]

Thanks Pat for taking the time to answer my questions! I like both pictures, both just outstanding - but I am partical to Tahquamenon Falls as I have visited that park so many times and just really enjoy the surroundings! I normally visit this park once a year while up in the Mac City area, but did not get the opportunity to do visit this year....

Anyway, thanks for your input - I am leaning towards the screw on at this time. I think for the over-all cost involved I can get a couple of different NG filters. Much to learn and to experiment with...

Just for the fun of it, here is a film pic taken of the Falls back in the early 90's...Mid-February with temps way below zero! I loved it!



Thanks again Pat!

Tom B.

[bob_r]

Tom,

For ND and GND filters, I use Cokin's. I often use them without the holders and prefer to just hold them up in front of the lens. I prefer them because they take up so little room in the bag. My polarizers are all screw on and when I take a number of different size lenses, the filters occupy a lot of space in my bag. I carry the Cokin filters in a side pocket and don't need different sizes. As Pat said, they can get scratched, but compared to the screw on models, they're so cheap they can be replaced when needed.

Bob R

[Bonish Photo]

Great shot of the falls in Winter! I'd love to go out there to see it in the winter, especially with all the snow we have in Michigan right now.

I agree with Bob, the Cokin's are nice to just be able to whip out and hold up, but I found I was fumbling with too many things while trying to stack them and allign them and press the shutter and focus...LOL

[Tom B.]

Thanks Gentlemen...I hit the Cokin web site and got a ton of info...Now just have to dial in what I really want to achieve and then move forward...I do appreciate your viewpoints...

Pat - the U/P in the winter is beautiful! As you probably know, the plows are always in motion in Michigan in the winter so getting around was not that much of an issue. The Falls is a destination for a lot people who hit the central part of the UP in the winter. It doesn't hurt that one can get to the Falls by car/truck or by snowmobile.

Thanks again for the guidance Gentlemen!

Tom B.

[Edd]

Hi guys,

Tom, I'm really pleased you started this thread as I've been toying with investing in a few filters for a few weeks now. I've done a quick price comparision on a camera stores website.

My lenses are both 55mm Dia but iirc the lense does rotate during focusing so I assume for a GND the Cokin system is better for me. How does the Cokin filter holder attach to the lense ???? and is it a fiddley process ????

One other question if I may, with a GND is it critical where the horizon sits because of the filtering effect ????

We have a trip planned to Mull in Scotland this year (May) and I know lanscapes and waterfalls will be a constant subject so I wanted to be armed and ready for action.

I was hoping to get some new glass for then but I really don't think I will be able to make that investment in time now.

Ed

[Tom B.]

Hi Ed -

Great questions - ones that should be probably addressed by Pat and Bob as they have shared their thoughts already. I have researched the Cokin system and the traditional screw type, and I am still undecided as I see applications for both types. Plus, I really would like to see the Cokin system first hand, and I have not had the time to stop by my photography store, yet....

Thanks for the questions!

Tom B.

[Edd]

Hi Tom,

The two lenses I have are Tameron 28 - 80mm and a Canon 75 - 300mm f4-5.6 III USM which isn't the best in the market. I was looking to introduce these filters to my kit bag, but seeing that I wish to upgrade the lenses when I can I was looking at the cheaper option for now. No point in spends £££ on something that may take a backseat after the lense has been replaced.

However I'm also keen to try out the effect of these filters and get used to working with them before we go on our holiday.

Hopefully Bob or Pat will be along soon.

Ed

[bob_r]

Hi guys,

Tom, I'm really pleased you started this thread as I've been toying with investing in a few filters for a few weeks now. I've done a quick price comparision on a camera stores website.

My lenses are both 55mm Dia but iirc the lense does rotate during focusing so I assume for a GND the Cokin system is better for me. How does the Cokin filter holder attach to the lense ???? and is it a fiddley process ????

One other question if I may, with a GND is it critical where the horizon sits because of the filtering effect ????

We have a trip planned to Mull in Scotland this year (May) and I know lanscapes and waterfalls will be a constant subject so I wanted to be armed and ready for action.

I was hoping to get some new glass for then but I really don't think I will be able to make that investment in time now.

Ed

Sorry for taking so long to respond, but somehow I missed your post. Here's a link to the Cokin web site that shows how the filter holders attach and how the filters are inserted: http://www.cokin.com/ico1-p1.html
It is a very easy system to use and the filter can be rotatated and the GND filters are easy to align where you want them. I always carry the filters with me, but don't always carry the holders. If I know that I'm going to use the filters, I'll take the holders with me, but the filters are quite easy to use by just holding in front of the lens. Since you are planning a trip to Scotland and planning on using them with your water shots, I'd suggest a holder. The holders make it easier to use for long sessions when using a tripod. The holders are nice when using multiple filters. You just slide them in place.

Ed, I would get a screw on circular polarizer filter. Cokin makes them, but I think the screw type would work better since the filter has to be rotated to make them effective. I haven't tried Cokin's.

[Edd]

Thanks again for the info Bob.

I haven't really considered a polarizer so don't know to much about them at this stage other than they fit on the end of your lense, they enhance sky colours, and reduce light coming in by about 2 stops. Oh! and they work best when the sun/light is 90 degrees to the lense.

I take it that the rotation caused during focusing wouldn't affect its operation.

Would be interested to hear your comments on why to use the polarizer, for no other reason than I haven't got a clue why if you see what I mean .

Cheers

Ed

[bob_r]

Thanks again for the info Bob.

I haven't really considered a polarizer so don't know to much about them at this stage other than they fit on the end of your lense, they enhance sky colours, and reduce light coming in by about 2 stops. Oh! and they work best when the sun/light is 90 degrees to the lense.

I take it that the rotation caused during focusing wouldn't affect its operation.

Would be interested to hear your comments on why to use the polarizer, for no other reason than I haven't got a clue why if you see what I mean .

Cheers

Ed

Ed,

Here's a link that explains the uses of a CPL better than I could: http://www.great-landscape-photography. ... ilter.html

Bob R

[Edd]

Thanks again for that Bob, at least I was barking up the right tree.

Another Item has now been added to the "Must have before holiday" list.

Good job its my birthday before we go

Ed