Printing Images

[Edd]

I'm after a little help here as I'm rapidly pulling my hair out and I didn't have much to begin with.

I'm trying to print out some images but they always come out darker than I see on my monitor.

I have made sure the Camera is set to sRGB, Photoshop is set to sRGB and the printer is set to sRGB (RGB - sRGB IEC61966 - 2.1 to be exact).

The only link that I can't seem to find/change is the monitor.

Can anyone suggest anything that will get the colours to match all the way through the process from Shooting to Processing to Printing.

I'll hold my hand up and say that the printer is not ideal for the task at hand, its an Epson C66 inkjet but I'm also using a Epson Laser C1100. (The laser can't print onto photo paper but I'm just trying to do a comparison and get the colours right).

With both printers I get a message displayed saying "Postscript specific print settings (Interpolation, Calibration, Encoding) will be ignored. Printing to a non postscript printer."

I'm currently saving for a new printer for photos so any recommendations would be great, budget is arund the £500 mark.

Thanks in advance for your help

Ed

PS Just had another look at the monitor settings and mananged to also set that to the sRGB now.

[gldiana]

Hi Ed,
you just faced a very common (and the most annoying) problem with digital photography. You see, a computer doesn't know what a color is, and manufacturers all have different technologies that reflect in their components with different hues so, for example, light red RBG: 210, 51, 51 is different on my monitor than it is in yours, different from printer to printer, etc. Not only, it can also (and very likely is) different from software to software. sRGB only defines the gamut, the actually number of colors the device is capable of displaying (sRGB is the lowest quality gamut, AdobeRGB is much wider), trying to bring some compatibility but the problem persists because your monitor (and every other component) doesn't know the difference between RGB codes. Sorry, I'm repeating myself but trying to make it clear.
The only way to obtain consistency is by the use of a calibration device. This device tells a computer exactly what the color is supposed to look like so if you calibrate your computer, embed the profile in the image, when I upload your photo in my computer it will look exactly the same. Great rigth? Well, not entirely. We solved one part of the problem, the on-screen display. The printer still doesn't know what nuances of color the screen is showing. For that you will need another calibration device (or the same, depending on which one you pick, it's like a little scanner, it reads light) to perform a "printer profiling" - this works by displaying some colors in your screen (the profiler knows at this point what the screen looks like), these colors can be from as little as 100 to as many as several thousands. The profiling software then will print a sheet with all those colors at which point you will scan using the calibration device. The software compares what it scanned with the colors it display on the monitors and adjusts the color profile so that now you printer matches your screen. Ta-dah! It's actually not as complicated as it sounds... only problem: cost.
Just 2 years ago if you wanted to do at-home printer profiling you would have to spend at least a thousand dollars now there are various solution. The newest (and cheapest) one is called Color Munky. I only heard great things about it, it sells for about 430 dollars (sorry, for some weird reasons my dollar sign is not working today) and does both screen and printer profiling (and multiple monitors too, which is great). Other great option is Spyder 3 (starts at 130 USD, 250 USD for Professional version and around 600 for the one that includes printer calibration). If you don't print all you need is a monitor calibration device, but us poor photographers often print so a printer profiler is pretty much mandatory. After reading reviews I decided I'll be going with Color Munki.
Hope this helps you.

[Edd]

Absolutely and thank you again for a very informative answer.

We were discussing this morning about buying a better Printer, which we really need to do, but as I see it the same problem will still exist.

TBH until I started palying around with photoshop and looking more closely at what I was printing I had never really noticed this problem before.

So would I be better off loading AdobeRGB instead of sRGB as my colour manager if it has a wider range of colours ????

Thanks

Ed

[bob_r]

Ed,

If you're running windows, you might have an option to select a different color driver for your printer.

Go to printers and faxes and right click, then select properties.
click on the "Color Management" tab.
This allows you to select various management schemes.
You might try selecting different ones until you find a better match.

My printer has a number of options and since I use Spyder 2 Express to callibrate my monitor,
there's an option to select "Spyder2express" for my color management. By selecting this option,
it should set my printer and monitor to use the same color scheme. Spyder 2 express sells for less than $100, normally.

Bob R

[Edd]

Thanks Bob,

Can only see Color Management Tab when the individual printers are selected.

I will try different ones as suggested but I rather hoped that once all the drivers/managers were set to the same default they would all produce the same colours.

Life is never that easy though is it !!!!!

I can feel a calibration coming on.

Ed

[gldiana]

By selecting this option, it should set my printer and monitor to use the same color scheme.

... a similar color scheme. Differences can be substantial. Colors vary from printer to printer, even within the same manufacturer. That's why printer calibration is really the only way to assure that what you see on the screen is exactly what you get on paper. And it's not even that easy (you thought it would be, huh? ) All papers absorb ink in different ways therefore proper calibration has to be done for each paper.

[hw771230]

All of this is why I send out for all my prints, except for the rare "check this out" photo which I'll print on my cheap HP 5440. It does much better as a document printer. Maybe one day I'll invest in a good photo printer, but for now it is much simpler to get someone else to do a good job.

Caleb

[Edd]

I've had a bit of a poke around on the net today to see if I could find the Colour Munki software etc.

I was truely amazed at how expensive this was. The cheapest I could find Colour Munki was £375 thats nearly $700

We want the ability to print images at home so we do need to look at a better printer, but I assume that I still face the same problem ???

I spoke to a friend today who has done digital photography for quite a while and he said he doesn't have any problems like this. Is he just lucky ???

Cheers

Ed

[gldiana]

Oh, I forgot you live in the UK. Yeah, everything there is a lot more expensive.
You are bound to find the same problem, it might be to a lesser extent where you are satisfied with the print or it might not. You can try doing a bit of reverse engineering: print a photo and adjust the settings on your monitor until the photo on the screen matches the one on paper. After then when you'll adjust the photo on the screen (making sure you use the same profile everywhere) it will be similar on paper. Problem is that only your monitor will display it that way and if you send it to someone there's very good chances that it will look nothing like your screen.

[Edd]

Nice thinking Luca, only problem is we use the computer for work as well and I'm sure if I screw around with the settings my wife will soon give me earache.

Anyway did notice yesterday if I drop my head down 30 - 40 degrees below the centre of the monitor I can acheive the same effect !!!!!!

My plan is to try Bobs idea and cycle through different colour managers, I seem to have 4 or 5 to try from.

Then a new printer, which we need any how.

If the problem still persists I'll just have to take the plunge. However I do know someone who runs a photographic print shop so I may ask her if she knows of anyone who could calibrate for me, hopefully at a cheaper price !!!!

Ed